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Full Transcript

Jen Liddy

Hey, I am so glad that you are here for this week's Content Creation Made Easy Podcast. I'm your host, Jen Liddy. And this week I'm hosting Strategic Copywriter and Launch Strategist Brenna McGowan. And Brenna and I know each other and we like to talk about nerdy wordy things. And so I'm really glad that she's here. 

But let me give you a very specific introduction so you understand why I actually invited Brenna here to talk to you about pre-launch content and why it's so important. So Brenna is a strategic copywriter marketing consultant and launch expert. She believes what I believe, which is that hustle-based high-pressure program launches do not serve you, nor do they serve your audience or your customers. Instead, Brenna can help you leverage your pre-launch content to show your customers empathy, credibility, authority, and bring your personality to it. Also, that way, you get to launch confidently with less stress and more sales. And who doesn't want that? Because if you've ever been through a launch, you know how stressful it is. You know how many moving parts there are. 

So let's make this a little bit less stressful for you and for your audience.

So, Brenna, I'm so glad you're here. Thanks for taking the time and putting up with all the tech nonsense that's been happening. I really appreciate it. Glad you're here. Let's get started talking about prelaunch content.

Brenna McGowan

Very excited to be here. Thank you for having me. 

Jen Liddy

You're welcome. So before we get into pre-launch content, can you tell us a little bit about how you fell into this copywriter world that you're in?

Brenna McGowan

Yes. So I was a stay-at-home mom, and I was doing some odd jobs throughout the years. And long story short, on a whim, I decided to start a social media management business, which I truly I didn't even know that's what it was called. I just thought I would start.

I was actually helping a friend at the time and thought, gosh, I could do this as a business maybe. I didn't want to go get a nine-to-five job. And I was trying to make what I say was $500 extra a month without having to go somewhere to work. So I went ahead and started this business. Although at the time I didn't realize social media management, I thought it was like everything. So I was doing people's blogging, their Pinterest, their Twitter, their Instagram, their Facebook. I did it all quickly became very burned out. And by within, I would say the first six or seven months, I knew I needed to pivot and actually decided that doing email copy was what I really loved to do. 

So at that point in time, at the beginning of 2019, I just started to call myself an email copywriter. Actually, I took a course. This and that. But long story short, I threw myself into the copywriting world and I think I realized how much I loved it. I always loved words. I always loved plays on words and how we can talk to people and make a big difference. 

So over the last few years, I have done tons of writing for clients, from websites to landing pages to emails, to you name it. But one thing I've always loved is the sales process. I'm a conversion copywriter at heart. But what I started to notice, especially working with clients, was that I'd go in and write launches sometimes, and sometimes things would go super great, and then other times they wouldn't go so great. Right?  And it was like, “Okay, what is the common denominator of the difference?”

And I think there's so much that goes into a successful launch in general. But what I really started to notice is that people were basically launching to an audience that wasn't ready to buy their stuff yet. Right? For a myriad of reasons. So at that point in time, I decided to really focus down and take all of this, like, marketing experience.

So as much as I didn't love making what I said was like $2 an hour in 2018 because I was doing all of the things, what it really made me do is give myself a very quick education from different platforms, different funnels, looking at things from a really strategic angle. Which is something that I've brought into my copywriting. I feel like I've merged this understanding of social media copy content with my conversion copywriting to help my clients. And this is why I think you and I get along so well, because we both are content lovers. Right?

And if you're going to be creating content, why not have it, especially before lunch, why not have it do some of the heavy lifting for you going into a sales period?

Jen Liddy

Yeah, I say that all the time. People are like, “Do we really have to do content?”

Yes, you really do have to do content. 

So why not make it feel good and easy and sustainable for yourself? So, yeah, we're both always on the same page about that. So let's talk about pre-launch content specifically. So can you just give us a quick overview of what actually this idea of pre-launch means?

Brenna McGowan

Yes. So when someone's going into a specific promotional period, there are certain beliefs that our people need to have. I say for people to buy from you, they have to know three things or believe three things. 

• They have to believe that your offer is the right offer to help them. 
• They have to believe that you are the right person that can help them. 
• And they also have to believe in themselves that they can do. 

And whatever you're offering, whatever that transformation is that you're offering to them a lot of times. And I also think this is the trickiest one. And I think the one that a lot of people skip over is that it's the belief shifting of what people think about themselves. A lot of times people will see these testimonials or…

I have clients who have these huge testimonials. And I'm always trying to say, like, how can we make these more relatable? Because it's not so much, a lot of times we don't believe that this transformation is possible. What we don't believe is that it's possible for ourselves. And so we can really use our prelaunch content to speak to some of those beliefs that we have, whether it's better to offer or themselves, to really start moving the needle and moving people to a point where either they know that your offer is absolutely not for them or that you're not for them.

Like, there are certain people that as much as we just don't jive with as well. So it is simple to get complicated sometimes, right? There's, like, a psychological process that people go through when it comes to sales. And so this is what I love about using a pre-launch is to move the people from, like, okay, where they're at now to where the point where they need to be to be able to buy from us.

Jen Liddy

Yeah. And that is all happening in a relationship.

Brenna McGowan

Absolutely. And that's the other reason I have focused so much down on pre-launch. I know for me personally, I am very much… I love stories. I love people. I love relationship building. 

And so when I have a relationship with someone and I feel that connection, I know for myself it's a lot not easier to buy, but I want to buy. I'm like, “Okay, cool. I'm excited about this. I'm excited about the person.”

So it's building a relationship in the midst of all of this and really looking for ways. I'm actually working on doing a group coaching program starting in April. And I actually have to help people because sometimes people struggle with this too. It's like, okay, how do I start a conversation? Our emails and our social media are ways to start conversations. So sometimes we're not really sure how to do that, to kind of open up a possible sales discussion down the line. And sometimes it's really just thinking through, like, “Okay, how can I be of service to someone and how can we start talking about it in a way?” Versus a traditional launch? And this is where… and I believe in launching. I believe that you still need an open cart and closed card at times and urgency and scarcity. But sometimes, too, people just need a little bit more processing time. And what happens in a launch is like, I call it the do or die time. 

I'm a launch copyrighter. I've written tons of launch emails. But I wanted to say, like, “Okay, before we get to that point, can we start this discussion?” versus, “Okay, buy my stuff now or you're out of time or there are not enough spots.”

Jen Liddy

Even though it might be true, it can feel manipulative to your audience if they're slow decision-makers and you're saying now it's open, now it's closed. If you haven't kind of had that longer runway the people who really… everybody's brain works differently. And the people whose brains require more questioning, more information, more time to get their confidence that this is the right program for them, it's not serving them either.

Brenna McGowan

No. Actually, it's funny enough, I do. I work with my friend Linda Sidhu. She writes quizzes and I'm part of her team. And she uses the DISC Personality, which is there are four types of personalities in DISC, and I'm not a DISC expert by any means. But I know enough about it, right? From doing these quizzes and helping her and studying it to some degree.  I've seen different numbers. But Linda just showed me something. It's like more than 50% of people, if I remember correctly, are slow decision-makers, like half of the population.

Jen Liddy

I’ve been wondering about that.

Brenna McGowan

Yeah. I actually saw another blog that had it much higher. So for this purpose, we have 50% of people who need time in their decision-making. They need to understand, they need processing. And so a traditional launch, it's just not set up that way. It's set up that you have to make a decision very quickly. So you could be losing sales, not because you don't have the right offer, not because your audience isn't primed. It's more just those people who need some time. 

And I also think, too, just with everything going on in our world more and moreover the last couple of years, I just think the market has changed where people are like they need time to process. Right? 

I joke around, but it's like I'm going to throw up a webinar and send seven emails and people are going to flood in. I don't think that is the way that it works most of the time, especially for you and me who aren't huge name brands. Or we're not like the Amy Porterfields of the world, you know, it's just a little bit different. 

The last thing I'll say on that is I was actually doing some research for my own sales page for my group program on pre-launch. And it said I was like shocked that we make 35,000 decisions every day. The average person 35,000 decisions. That number is just like bananas to me. And the fact as entrepreneurs, I'm guessing we're probably making more than that. 

So that's the other reason why I believe so much in pre-launching is like, okay, if you only give people a seven-day window with seven chances of an email, that's seven out of like a whole lot of decisions. Right? There's a lot going on in people's minds. And so just allowing people a little bit more space in their decision-making, not only do I think it is it respectful, I think it's almost a must-have in 2022 and beyond.

Jen Liddy

Yeah. So when you're talking about kind of laying all of this groundwork, building the relationship, seeding the solution, seeding the problem. The other thing I heard you say is seeding the confidence that the person has to have, not just that they need to like you, but they need to believe that if they join your program, they can actually get those results. All of that. It takes a lot of seeding. So how long does pre-launch really go on for?

Brenna McGowan

Right. I think it depends on a few things. I think, first of all, it depends on how much your offer is. Right. You're probably going to need to pre-launch a program that is ten or $15,000 a lot longer than you need to. I have a client I'm working with right now with $147 product. We don't need to do a six-week launch or pre-launch necessarily to sell a $147 offer. I don't think it's going to hurt, however. 

So I think part of it is you have to look at, okay, what am I selling? How warm is my audience? Right. Where are they when they come to me on the awareness journey, which basically that fancy marketing wording is like how close are they ready to how much pain are they in in order to make a buying decision? Someone who's in a more, not that I think we sit here and agitate pain, but someone who's in more pain that needs a solution right now is going to be a lot quicker than buy than someone you're having to convince that even has a problem. So there are a lot of things that go in there.

But standard, I like to do a six-week pre-launch. Typically for most of my clients, four to six weeks is kind of like, I think the sweet spot on how long it's going to probably take. And just because once again, you want to give yourself some time to be able to put out content and you don't want to smoosh it into like a two-week period if you don't have to.

Jen Liddy

Or you don't want to fatigue your audience either, I imagine. So when you're doing a prelaunch in your work as done for your copywriter, what is it that you can share with us as maybe people who aren't ready to hire somebody but want to think about how to incorporate the philosophy that you're talking about here? What's important to know for people to implement, right?

Brenna McGowan

Well, I think the first part that's super important is research. That's where my copywriter's brain comes in. It's like I really need to know and understand my people to be able to create content that's going to better serve them. So starting off with research, figuring out, like when we go back to what are those things that they believe about themselves that aren't true, what holds them back from buying my offer. 

Maybe they have a bias about something in the industry. Maybe they have a bias about that they think there's a better solution out there. There are a lot of things going and taking the time to actually do customer research is going to make a huge difference. And not only is it going to make a huge difference through pre-launch, but it's also going to make a huge difference, as you and I both know, for all your content, right. 

Things become so often people are like, I don't know what to talk about, I don't know what to talk about, and even myself. I'll get to this point where I'm like, I don't know what to talk about. And there are one or two things that happened. And this is what I'm trying to help my clients with. Either they haven't done enough research, right? Or they don't have a system or a plan to follow. I am not a systems person. I naturally like more of that creative. Let's just do things. But I have had to in my own business, really figure out systems that work to be able to get these things done. 

So the first thing is really looking at the research. The second thing is looking at your analytics. This is the boring stuff that once again, I don't necessarily love my dreams and is like to hire someone who's my operations person who looks at all of this stuff for me. But what has worked before? What have you gotten responses on? Like, what do you people respond to? A lot of times people aren't taking a look and saying, Where is my traffic coming from? Little things like this can make a big difference in our understanding. 

And then also, I think for any of our content, like, if you are spending hours and hours and hours creating a blog every week, then that's getting no traffic, then maybe that's not something you really need to focus on during a prelaunch period. So not that I'm against blogging, I'm just giving a quick example. 

The next step, too, is really taking time to have a strategy of taking all of that research and figuring out. 

So as a copywriter, I'm always looking for what are the major objections that people have to these things? What is the transformation that they're looking for in their own words, not in what you think it is? What are those myths that they're believing? So once you're able to understand that you can apply the strategy, you need to be able to create a content plan for those four to six weeks before your launch.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, I wanted to just speak to that every single time I talk to somebody new about. I mean, the pain point I solve is like, let's make content creation easier, right? And every time I talk to somebody about it, I get a different little gem about how they describe it. So one of the problems that my people talk about all the time is I'm afraid that if I start creating content, it's going to turn into this monster that I just have to feed all the time. One person actually used the word Cookie Monster and I was like, ”Oh, that is like a gem of a visual, right?” It's like, nom-nom-nom-nom... And that is an objection. 

So in my content, I really need to speak to the fact that, yeah, content doesn't have to be a monster, but it does require sustainability and it does require a long-term strategy. So let's make it as pleasant for you as possible and make it as personalized as possible. But knowing that's the objection. And then I have this language from them now the content is so much easier to create and then you can put the strategy to it that you're talking about.

So I just want to say to everybody listening out there, if you have not talked to your people yet and you don't know their words and the way they're describing the problem, not the way you would describe the problem, please stop and do that. Because what Brenna is talking about is absolutely key for anything else to work.

Brenna McGowan

Right. As a copywriter, I've spent tons of time being formal with clients and getting doing interviews and doing. But this could be very casual, too. It doesn't have to be a beast. So once again, research doesn't have to be a beast either, which is like if someone says something, you could be like, “Hey, could you explain this to me?”

Or maybe you take it too. If you're on Instagram and someone leaves a comment, maybe you could send them a quick voice message and say, “Hey, you said that this is really hard for you. Can I ask you why? Like, what does your day-to-day look like?”

Those are the kinds of things. Once you have that, it's amazing. And just as a copywriter, if I have that information, whether I'm writing a website, I'm doing pre-launch, what emails. You give me, customer language and there's no stopping me. It's amazing the difference it makes.

Jen Liddy

Yeah. And again, I love that you said it doesn't have to be formal research, like searching around even in a Facebook group where people are complaining about the problem that you solve for its marketing goals.

Brenna McGowan

Right. Well, and another place, there are tons of places. As a copywriter, I do research, but one of my favorites is Reddit or Quora. I spent a lot of time on Reddit and Quora and people don't give a rip on there. Right. They don't care what they're saying. They're using some fake name, some fake alias. And it's amazing the information. YouTube comments, too, sometimes. But I really find a lot of gold in the Reddit and Quora spaces where people are having these open discussions. It's a gold mine.

Jen Liddy

That's fun. Those are great. I love that. So then what happens after we create that strategy?

Brenna McGowan

Right. Well, then it's time to actually create the content. Right? So you figure out what the strategy is. Right? And then it's the content. 

And so to me, it's a pairing of like, I used a system. But going back to what you said during about my bio, and this goes back a little bit, even to the DISC thing where what I'm always thinking of is, “Okay, first of all, we need personality.”

I keep telling the story, but I love it. I asked someone recently for a referral for my sister, and the person that I asked said, “Oh, okay, I know two people that do this. Do you want the easy-going, free-loving person or do you want the really scientific person?” 

So it had nothing to do with abilities, nothing to do with anything. She asked me who I wanted a referral to based on personality. And it was just like it was like I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is what we're doing.”

This is why it's so important once again to get out there, to do this prelaunch content, to be on video, to do all these things that you and I talk about all the time because it comes down sometimes to a simple bit of personality.

And I know you and I have a mutual friend, Marisa Corcoran. And when I think about how I loved Marisa from the first time I heard her, but she and I, in my mind, instantly bonded because we both loved the 1996 “Pride and Prejudice” with Colin Firth. It's like my favorite movie of all time. And it's hard to decipher. Marisa is amazing at what she does, but it was like, okay, I feel like this bit of a bond to her, and that's what this personality part really does. 

And I think too, this is the fun stuff. The personality stuff is the fun stuff. And then empathy is my next one. 

Well, actually, I call it PACE. So the first one is personality. The second one is authority, which is like, where do you stand out that's different than other people? And this doesn't have to be like in your face authority. Right? This can be like, what are your views that are slightly different?

 Like, for me, I'm a launch copywriter, but I have a really strong view that you need to be putting out prelaunch and just going and hiring a copywriter to go write your copy isn't necessarily going to sell your stuff. That's a little bit different of what is being taught in the marketplace. What are these slight points of difference that you can come in and you can do this very easily? Even when I talked about, like how people make 35,000 decisions a day. I haven't heard anyone talk about that. It's a simple statistic that I just gave my viewpoint on. 

So it's really going out and saying, okay, where am I slightly different? Where can I stand out with how I talk about things? 

The third one is credibility. This is where what have you done for people or what have you done for yourself? Right. So if you're like, “Hey, Brenna, I don't have these huge results for people or whatever.” 

This is like, where can you start talking about how you've helped people, what your processes are, and start putting out content that speaks to that you're like, legit, right? People can trust you because you know what you're doing. 

And then the last one is empathy. This one, I think, is sometimes not focused on enough. And this is like making sure we see people in their pain. So it's not just talking about their pain points. When I work with a client, no matter if it's real estate or some type of other, I'm trying to think of a recent one that I've had, but I'm actually working with a doctor right now who's putting on a course. Like, I'm trying to get into the mindset of the people of where they're at right now and show that I truly understand where they're at.

I mean, being able to feel like someone sees you, that you can relate to someone also brings up this difference high. And I think it makes. Yes, personality is fun, like who you are. But if you can combine that with truly understanding where someone is at, and then you back it up with your points of view that are different, while you also show that you know what you're doing, you become unstoppable and the expert in your marketplace.

Jen Liddy

There's so much I want to unpack here. First of all, at a very basic level, the PACE framework that you're talking about makes a ton of sense. And we're talking about weaving four things in. This is hard to do if the content isn't your playground if content feels like just an extra thing. This is why you hire somebody like Brenna to learn you and learn your voice and get the specifics and do this for you. It's super generous to have this framework from you. And if you're listening to this and you're struggling and you're like, “Shit, I understand this, but I can't put it into play.”

We know that this is hard, and that's why we offer services. So I just want anybody listening who's feeling like, okay, I should be able to do this. Well, I'm not going to shut all over you and say, yeah, you should be able to do this. That's why you would hire somebody like Brenna. So I just want to say that out loud. It's very nuanced what you do.

Brenna McGowan

Yeah, it's one of those things. It's like, yeah, it's easy to be like personality in this, but how do you combine these things. And I don't want it to be complicated where it's like, you can't get this done. But there is a moment where it's like, and this takes practice, which is once again why we're putting out content, right? This is all about practicing and seeing what works, but also weaving this into those objections. 

That's part of the reason why I'm doing my small group program where I'm going to teach people this process, because this isn't something that is like, I'm just going to sit down one day and then write all of this amazing content that hits all these different points. It takes a minute, but it is super doable once you have a system. And like I said, I'm not a systems person, but creating a system around this makes a huge difference in how you get this type of content out into the world.

Jen Liddy

I work with people, too, who are not systems people. They're super creative. They want to be spontaneous. And I always ask them, how is that working for you? Because it's generally not working. So even spontaneous, creative fabric rebel people can create systems that work for them. And you're a great example of somebody who's done that. So if you're out there saying, like, I'm raging against having a system and I don't want to learn a system, I highly recommend you get into Brent's program because you're going to learn the system and make it work for you. So those are two big things I want to say. I want to unpack one thing in terms of credibility, like what have you done for me or what have you done for yourself? 

There's I think a belief out there that if your testimonials aren't like, “I wrote this email sequence for people and she had a $102,000 launch.” Right? Or “She quadrupled her email list.”

If you don't have those kinds of testimonials, because a lot of us don't a lot of us have testimonials like, oh, “My clients completely gained the confidence to get on video”, like talking about more feelings or more like smaller shifts. I'm going to put smaller in-air quotes because those are big shifts. Can you talk a little bit about that kind of the importance of credibility beyond a 10K, 100K exponentially huge number to share?

Brenna McGowan

No, I absolutely love this question. And I'll be honest more and more for myself and even for a bit for my clients. I have actually stepped away from the numbers. And I'll tell you why. 

Because first of all, I think people once again, I hit on this slightly earlier, which is when someone says, “Oh, I helped so and so have a 10K month,” right? They're thinking, “Oh, that's fine. I'm sure you can do that. But there's no way I'm hitting a 10K month.” Right? 

There's almost a disbelief. And I also think it's just become this noisy. Everyone has a numbers game that has actually been, I don't want to say overplayed, because I don't think that's what I mean. But I do think at some point we want to talk about just the tangible things that have happened, but also the internal benefits of what happened. 

There's one person in particular that I work with, and she's not like, “Oh, I need you to come in and make me a million dollars.” She's just like, “I need you to come in and help me think. I am making so many decisions every day in my business. I go from working with a client to try and writing my emails to trying to figure out this prelaunch process. I'm completely overwhelmed with everything that's going on. And you just coming in and helping me think and taking this off my plate has changed the way. And it's actually giving me space to work on other things in my business.”

So when you listen to those things I made so and so 10,000, or you hear about this really emotional experience that she had where I came in and helped her. And for me, too, I'll be honest. I am not looking for the person who's like, I want you to come in and make me $20,000 on this launch. I'm looking for the person who's like, “I'm looking to have a successful launch, but I really need someone to come in and do those things that I just talked about.” 

So more and more, even for my own business, I'm not looking out for the number seekers. And I think sometimes when we lead too heavily, one of my friends and I have talked about this when we lead too heavily with these super results numbers thing, we actually may draw in people that aren't right for our business.

And I'm not saying this is, like, for everyone, but I know for me, I need someone who needs both of those things. I'm a partner. I want to help you. But there are times when things don't go as planned, right? There are things I’ve tried with tons of expectations. So what I'm saying here is that don't be intimidated if you don't have these numbers.. And if you're someone who's starting, like, ask for people for…  just people want to work with decent people. They want to work with people who aren't going to screw them over. They don't want to work with people who are going to be turning in things late. so those are the type of things a lot of times that people are looking for. They go way beyond I made someone this bulk of money.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, I love that answer. Thanks for diving into that. So we understand why prelaunch is important. It's actually not just important. It's pretty vital in 2022 to develop a relationship. We understand like, this is a long runway. We have your great PACE framework. Is there anything else that the audience needs? To know about pre-launching that we didn't cover yet.

Brenna McGowan

Gosh, we talked about so much.

Jen Liddy

We did bring the shit out of pre-launching, didn't we?

Brenna McGowan

Right. And I think too since people listen, I just think it goes back to what we talked about earlier, which is like, if you're going to create content, like, why not create content that's really specific, and that's really what it comes down to. It's like, okay, how can we get more specific and get people excited to start conversations in these few weeks before? 

Because what ends up happening, too, is not only does it warn your people and let them know, I'm going to be selling this, or do you want a spot now, like selling early bird? But what it also does, too, is that it really…what I really want to emphasize is when you don't go into a launch and you're like, crap is anyone going to buy? Like, when you understand where your people are at, you can feel so much more confident about everything that's going on when it does come time for a promotion. 

And that's the part that kind of help with this whole stress thing is because you have had time to make sure that your messaging is on point. People are listening, you've asked questions. There are a lot of things that come up during pre-launch that actually speaks to what our launch needs to say because of this time.

So it's not only just a content-producing time to me, it's a little bit of like a research time, too. So you can hone in on your messaging.

Jen Liddy

Like, make your content actually do a job that it's not just willy-nilly. It's not just throwing spaghetti. It's actually answering their questions, building their confidence, and giving them information at the same time.

Brenna McGowan

And giving you information. Right? Because if you write about something and no one responds or people are asking questions or things aren't really you go, “Oh, wait, I never thought about this. This is a great angle.”

There's so much I know for me, the more I talk about my thing, the more that I'm putting things out there. There's so much more that comes up that I'm able to use for my selling process.

Jen Liddy

I'm telling you, I keep going back to that thing. Like, oh, once I get started with content, I don't want to have to keep going. So what they do instead is they never get started. So it's in their minds, it's better to never do it than to get started and stop doing it, which makes sense. Now, I can start speaking to that problem and talking about particular strategies or resolutions to that problem. But I would never have known that if I didn't talk to my people. So that's another great thing. Like if you have not talked to your people yet, that's where people need to get started.

Brenna McGowan

100%! And I think too, the other thing that happens a lot is like they think, “Oh, I have so much coming up for this launch. I got to do landing page launch, emails, webinar,” whatever it is that they completely ignore that period beforehand. 

And so I'm telling you, if you just put out content, basically. I know I gave you fancy formulas and stuff but literally if you just put out content that has some relevance to what you're going to sell, you're already probably like 80% ahead of the rest of the sales population.

Jen Liddy

Brenna, is there a way that people can connect with you? And I know that you have a gift for people to download too.

Brenna McGowan

Yes. So you can find me on Instagram at Brenna @mcgowanco or my website, https://brennamcgowan.co/ . But if you go to https://brennamcgowan.co… backslash? or is it forward slash?  I always get confused.

Jen Liddy

I've just been using slash now.

Brenna McGowan

Okay.  Slash cheat sheet (https://brennamcgowan.co/cheatsheet/ ) and I know you're going to throw this hopefully in the show notes but this is a cheat sheet where all of this type of content that we've talked about where those three beliefs that we talked at the very beginning that you need to shift I actually give you a very quick checklist of the type of content to create to help you start shifting those beliefs.

Jen Liddy

Fantastic. And if you're not on Brenna's email list, I highly suggest that you get on there. She's fun. It's very useful content and it's very value-based. So once you download that, you'll start to get regular emails from Brenna and you will thank me for having her on the podcast and I want to say thank you, Brenna, for being on the podcast, especially I wish the audience could know all of this shit show that happened right before we started. So I'm appreciative that you are here as the audience and Brenna appreciative that you're here is my guest today. Thank you.

Brenna McGowan

Thank you.

Jen Liddy

Bye, everyone. We'll see you next week. Bye.