Full Transcript

Jen Liddy
Good morning.

There's an invisible force that keeps marketers and content creators from being seen in the online world. And it's not because you can't write. And it's not because you don't want to get a video. It's not because your marketing sucks. It's because you don't have a solid mindset. Garbage softs are eating up your content and marketing time. So let's talk about this. Claudia, one of my favorite people, Claudia, is here today, my favorite marketing expert, and we've decided to brand ourselves the no BS marketers because we want to tell it like it is.

Claudia, thank you again for making time for me.

Claudia Schalkx
I love this page so you can ask me any time.

Jen Liddy
Can you tell me a little bit about what you see in terms of your clients with their marketing mindset?

Claudia Schalkx
When they can, we need to make a difference between two types of entrepreneurs have the entrepreneurs like Amy Porterfield, who cater to thousands of people. And that's a different mindset. But the mindset of the clients you and I work with when use more business to business. And it's more one on one. What I see when I ask them what their secret wishes. I want to automate my marketing or I want to outsource my market.

Jen Liddy
Oh, yeah.

Claudia Schalkx
In other words, I don't want to do marketing. And I am like, Why don't you want to do marketing? Because for me and you've heard this before from me. Marketing is the relationship with your client. It's a relationship with your customers. So why would you want to have somebody else doing that for you? You know, and if you trust your product or your service, why are you feeling salesy or feeling uncomfortable when you're talking about your product? So what? I think we are. It's screwing our marketing is not understanding how marketing works.

And that reflects in our mindset. So we feel salty or we feel pushy, or we feel like imposing ourselves. And actually, marketing is the first part of your selling process. And then again, if you don't like marketing, why would you like sending invoices that's right? That's a great point. That's really being selfish. So, you know, then you need to see what is preventing you from because, Francis, if you have a good friend that you like and you think you will match perfectly with another friend of you, you will try to match them and you will sell to each other.

You will sell them to each other. You know, without shame that you will even be pushy because of point. Yeah, because you believe in it. So you have to have the same approach to your marketing. If you believe in it, you won't be pushy because of your enthusiasm and your yes, your belief in it. Well, do part of the hard work. But it's the process of believing in your product and taking all those layers away from marketing sales.

Jen Liddy
I think I want to talk a little bit about why we have these opinions about marketing, and some marketing is so enjoyable. Some marketing is so much fun or entertaining. I think about some of the great Twitter accounts out there like, Wendy has this great Twitter account, and they could be very snarky, and they have personality. And it's actually fun to watch that kind of marketing. And we forget about those marketing tactics because I think we're so oppressed by so many shitty marketing tactics.

Claudia Schalkx
Yeah, definitely. But I also think many of us when we start our business and we do the branding, we focus more on the graphic expressions of our brand. So the logo, the callers, the look and feel. But we don't do the foundational work, which is what are my values. What is my y? Why am I doing this? You know, and also if you want to call it your vision and your mission. But that is if you don't have that work, that foundational work and you don't know your content pillar.

So your personality traits, you know what you want to infuse to your brand, then you become inconsistent, and then you don't see the results. And then marketing is hard. So, for instance, if you're clear that you are somebody who wants to teach or somebody who has a quick sense of humor like Wendy Hans, you know, you create the guidelines for that kind of marketing, and then it's just following the rules. But you need to make to set the boundaries and you need to set the basis for that.

So many of those things is that people didn't stop to do the full branding exercise, which is what is the personality of my brand? Because you are your brand and I am my brand because we are our business, you know. And for me, for instance, it was I write in a very academic and serious way. So there is an abyss between talking to me and reading the stuff I write. And even more so because I write in English and English is not my native. I'm not a native English Speaker.

So I miss many of those words that would give that sparkle to my writing. So then I had to make for a long time, I wondered, lost in the world of content, what is my format? How can I do it until you and I started to do this format, which for me, works perfectly because you can see me in my real way, and you need to find that and you need to know how to use that to your brand and your marketing. Yeah.

Jen Liddy
I love this idea that if you haven't done the foundations of who, what is your voice? What are your core values? How do you want to show up in the world that adds another layer of the mindset garbage. Right. And then it's not working and it's not landing. Another layer comes onto the mindset garbage. And then we can undo all of this. But it's so much better if you just start with getting this figured out. I'll also think another thing that happens that adds on the mindset trouble for marketing is there's so many crappy methodologies out there that we're getting.

We see every day like the people who DM me. I have DMs every day in my Instagram that are just absolute garbage. And I wonder who taught these people that this is a marketing strategy that works or the aggressive, the aggressive marketing that's just relentless. And it's a constant commercial rather than a cultivating of a relationship. That so I think when you're just seeing this over and over again, we get hammered. We start to tell ourselves, I don't want to be like that, but you don't have to be like that.

Claudia Schalkx
Definitely. Well, marketing has got a very bad reputation because of those practices, you know, because people don't take the time to connect. People don't take the time to understand who the customer is or the customer are. And definitely. And I don't know the layer to that the gurus whole sale and proclaim things they have never done. So marketing. Unfortunately, marketing has a very bad reputation. But the thing is, you have to reconcile with marketing because that's the first step in getting your product or your service known to the world.

You need to find your style. We've discussed this the other day in a different context, but you need to find the marketing that works for you. So if you're an introvert, having you doing videos or having you speaking out loud, it's not going to work for you, it's going to drain you. And then you need to find recoup time so that you can recover if that's what you want to do. But for instance, if you're an introvert, social media like LinkedIn, where you can take the time to sync and overweight, your reply will work best for you.

Then if you go to Instagram or to other platforms where people need a reaction quickly, so the rhythm in LinkedIn is somewhat slower. Instead, if you are an extrovert, Twitter is a better place for you in addition to speaking in addition to but if you are like me, one on one, your marketing strategy needs to lead to conversations where you have the one on one setting so that you can connect. If you throw me in a large place with lots of people, I go to a corner because I love watching people do their thing.

I learn a lot, but I don't know it works at all. So I go, oh, did you network now?

Jen Liddy
But I was there.

Claudia Schalkx
But I was there. I saw everything. I know what everything everybody was wearing. I know the new fashion trends, the new words, trends, everything. But I didn't grow my business because that doesn't work for me. It's too much noise, too much stimulus, and I don't operate well. So you really need in addition to sort branding foundations, you also need to know what is the kind of marketing that works for you, for your personality, for your way of communicating. If you don't write, if you don't like writing, creating a strategy that's based on social media, post or blog, it's unsustainable for you.

And then you will start hating marketing because you're doing the work. But you're not enjoying it. And on the medium or two long term, you will start to hate it. And then you will start to create content for the sake of creating content. And that's another thing that gives another marketing another bad reputation. So, yes, you need to find your platform. You need to find your style and what works for you.

Jen Liddy
We got a question that said, I think people confuse the line between marketing and sales and sales sound icky.

Claudia Schalkx
Yes. The thing is, without marketing, there is no sales. So I understand there is a fine moving line. But then again, when it's people like us who are business owners and we sell directly, your marketing is supposed to lead to sales. So otherwise you have to start an NGO with charity and give your knowledge for free, and then you're happy. But if you need to live from your knowledge, you need to sell. So.

Jen Liddy
I was in a group where I'm getting feedback. Do you hear my feedback?

Claudia Schalkx
Yes. No. Okay.

Jen Liddy
Good. I was in a room where a woman asked for help and the big Oops that we're together. She asked for help with a sales page. And people were super generous. They gave her idea after idea after idea. Here's what's wrong. Here's a tweak. Here's the tweak. And no matter what people said to her, she said her response literally every time was, I hate writing sales pages, and then somebody else would come back with, hey, you don't have an opening hook. I hate writing sales. I was like, I could tell you literally what to do every step of the way.

But if you're coming in with I hate doing this. I hate doing this. And I never found out whether she actually launched that sales page and filled up her program.

Claudia Schalkx
You need to outsource. And then you need to breathe the person who's going to create the page for you that you still need to understand the process because can be another fake, because as they grow them like Bush and they can sell you sales space that's supposed to perform. And it's not. And if you don't have control of the process yet, then you will another reason to hate marketing, right.

Jen Liddy
So I told the story before I paid a huge amount of money for a sales page that never converted. And it wasn't because the sales page was crappy. It was because my program wasn't what people needed. The wording wasn't exactly right. So even if you had enough money to hire everything out, you still need to know what words are your audience using and what phrases are they using and what problems do you solve for them and what results do they want? And I don't think that that's pushy to know those things and to talk about those things because people need our help.

That's, like what marketing is is helping people to get a solution.

Claudia Schalkx
But the thing is, the ideal situation is when the sales happens spontaneously. And what I mean by this is when your marketing works as a well-oiled machine, that at the end is a customer saying, when do we start or what program do you have? And even so, when that conversation, when that question pops, you need to ask yourself, Do I know enough about this person? Is this person a good fit for my program? Am I a good fit for this person? And if you don't know it, you need to make a pause in the conversation and ask these questions because otherwise you will get the sale and then you will start hating sales.

Jen Liddy
What are your favorite tactics with your clients? Once you understand why they hate marketing or what their mindset garbages, do you have any strategies that you share with your clients?

Claudia Schalkx
Well, one of the things I do is I mirror the strategies to them, and I try to find out why they hate marketing so much. And usually I do parallels between daily happenings and things in marketing, for instance, the idea of matching to friends. You know, that's marketing and spirit sessions, you know what your friend wants. You know what the other fence has to offer. You bring them together, right? The exact same thing. And then again, find your style. I have a quiz in my site where you can find your style and after the results, if you sign up to even get strategies that will work for your style, you need to find a marketing that works for you, a marketing that helps you to hang in there for the long run.

Because marketing is long term game. It's not, you know, a short thing. You need to hang in there. Whoa. How long have we been doing these conversations? Almost a month.

And it was last week that we got reaction and not even outside the conversation. So this confirms that there is a lot of voyeurism in social need. The other people see and consume, but they don't let you know that they are there, and all of a sudden they pop on your email. I've been following you for three years that I love a bit thing you write and do. And I was interested. So, you know, marketing is a long term game, and it's very important that you find something, you know, something that works in your style and that you invest, if you know, for instance, so funny.

And you know this because this is how we met. I am so good at creating content or ideas for content for everybody, but not for myself. So I know that. And I look for help. And that's how you and I met. So you need to know what is your your week area and try to find support there, because what makes marketing so frustrating? It's it's not a linear thing, I know, but it's susceptible to the sum of its parts. So the thing is not working there.

So you can do. For instance, the way I looked at the marketing of my clients is for me, it's a circle. And what I do ask is what is working now in your marketing, what is giving you results? And I try to make that better or more efficient or strengthen it. And then I go and look what's not working and how is that affecting that what is working. So, you know, in that fashion, my clients are not starting from zero every time, because that's the other thing.

Every time you bring help in most of these things, or people don't consider what you've been doing so far.

Jen Liddy
And then yours is something, for example, to go back to the networking or the connecting model of marketing. You may have had a lot of success in your connecting and marketing versus in real life, like with relationship marketing. But if your brain is telling you that kind of marketing doesn't matter. You need to do more. You need to be on Twitter and Instagram and reels and TikTok your marketing mindset is going to be it's going to chip away at you when you may have something that like you said, is really working well for you.

So I think one of the big takeaways from this conversation is kind of getting into a quiet place and looking at all of the things that you're doing and getting rid of some of the noise because there's probably marketing noise that is chipping away at your mindset, like yucky stuff coming into your email or into your DMs, and you thinking it has to be that way. It doesn't have to be any way.

Claudia Schalkx
Well, you have to go in an information diet. Definitely. You have to go in an information diet. So for instance, when I start to work with the coach because mine retired. So I am looking for a new coach, or if I would be looking for a new coach, the moment I start to work with this coach, I will go on an information diet, you know, because and what's this coach giving me and all the other things that becomes too much when I start a new course, I go on an information it regularly.

I am roughly about unsubscribing from things that I don't read that lost their value for me because my business grew or because my business is going in a different direction.

Jen Liddy
I love this. So ultimately, I think if people could just take away from this conversation that marketing is helping people and it's really the only way to grow your business and also to turn on its head that marketing is evil because how many times in your life and in my life has something been wrong? And I have needed a solution. And only because of marketing and finding something did I find that solution? We all have to realize we're the solution to somebody's problem to hold you back from them in a brush.

Claudia Schalkx
Yeah. You have to do the groundwork is setting the base of your marketing. It's time consuming. Yes. Once you set the date, you can only grow from it. Because, for instance, going to my favorite topic, one, you know, you're buying person. And so this is a recurring theme. But the thing is, there is so much inside the buy in person, it's the language is the problem. It's like the main pillar of your marketing. So, you know, put time into it, really figure out. And if you can do it on your own, as for help, you reach out for you, reach out for me, reach out for somebody else who's good at it, because that is the pillar.

And that holds the key to the word, holds the keys to their services you should be developing, holds the key to your message, holds the key to your website, holds the key to which platforms will you be present? You know, and in that fashion, your marketing will be lighter and will be more efficient because, I mean, there are 24 hours in a day. And many of you, not my case, are moms are married, so that takes time as well. And sleeping. We need to sleep and we still need to work.

So you need to be very, very clever and smart. How are you going to use your time? And it's better that you spend the time creating a good foundation, whether in your branding and in your marketing foundation. And then you can go lighter and then you can start, you know, experimenting or saying, okay, of course. And what you said, take the time, take a step back. Look at what you like, what makes you happy and give you results and see how you can do more of that.

Jen Liddy
And we started this conversation with me, basically being in the dark because the sun apparently hasn't come up yet in Syracuse. And now I look like a ghost because then your lights. Sorry, everybody. I look like it goes. All right, let's wrap up today. Claudia, thank you for your time and insights.

Claudia Schalkx
Again.

Jen Liddy
There's so much good stuff here to give ourselves permission to stop doing everything and realize what's working for us, what we don't want to be part of. And if you are out there and you're struggling with this stuff, Claudia has a system that can help you just really understand your buyers persona much more clearly. And I have a program that helps you understand how to create content and publish it in a way that actually feels good to you. So one of us can help you. It doesn't have to be this hard.
I promise.

Claudia Schalkx
It just does not thank you. I'll talk to you next week. Bye sure. Bye bye.