You’ve heard me say it a bajillion times: knowing yourself is crucial to successfully creating content, copy, & messaging that works FOR you + your business!

[This isn't a hobby & you're not doing it for giggles. It has to serve YOU and your audience...]

Which is why for today's episode of Content Creation Made Easy, I’ve brought in Jackie Brewster, certified Enneagram coach and experiential specialist, to shed light on how the Enneagram can guide us in this aspect of marketing our businesses.

Don’t know what the Enneagram is yet? No prob: it’s a personality typing system with 9 different types, each representing a unique way of viewing the world.

Jackie breaks down each type and talks about how our diverse perspectives, strengths, & approaches impact the way we do life – including creating content and doing marketing!.

When you understand your Enneagram type, you can uncover & harness your motivations, lean into your YOU-ness, and use your positive traits to…

⭐️ Create internal motivation to keep going, even when things are rough

⭐️ Align your content + strategies with your values so it resonates with YOU and your audience.

⭐️ Communicate effectively, build genuine connections, and bring your unique perspectives to any conversation – whether it's online or at home

Buckle up and join us on this insightful journey as Jackie unpacks the Enneagram's profound impact on both self-discovery and content creation!

You can find Jackie at [email protected] and soak up her goodness on Instagram at @enneagramwithjb

👋 What’s one thing from today’s episode you can take away, use, or adapt in your own life & business?

Let us know your thoughts by leaving a review - and thank you in advance 🧡

Links Mentioned
www.instagram.com/enneagramwithjb

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Full Transcript

Jen Liddy

Hey, I'm really excited that you're here today for the Content Creation Made Easy podcast. I'm your host, Jen Liddy, and I'm here with a guest. I'm going to tell you about my guest first, and I'm going to tell you why she's here with me.

I have a belief that to work in this online space in 2023 with a 2023 audience, but also for who you are in 2023. One of the most important things is for you to know yourself and to know your audience. We are all such different people in the last three years. So much has happened to us, and so much has changed. There's so much more that we won't put up with, and I think it's really important that we know ourselves so much better in real life, the relationships that we have with ourselves, with the people that we are in relationships in real life with, but also in our online relationships.

That also includes our audience, and so I am doing a series where we're talking about how knowing yourself through different tools and modalities and knowing your audience through different tools and modalities will make creating content so much easier for you in terms of what you're putting out there, in terms of what you're saying, but also in terms of how you do it and how you expend your energy.

That's why I'm bringing on experts who are sharing their insights about all of the different ways we can know ourselves. Today I'm super excited to talk to Jackie Brewster, and she is an Enneagram coach, but she's more than that. She's a certified Enneagram coach, but she is also an... Oh, I'm going to get this wrong, an experiential specialist. Did I get that right, Jackie?

Jackie Brewster

You did, yeah, you did.

Jen Liddy

She's going to tell us more about what that means, but we are going to talk today about how using the Enneagram can help us not only know ourselves better but also know our audiences better.

We have no idea where this conversation is going, so stay along for the ride Jackie, thank you so much for joining me today - I really appreciate it.

Jackie Brewster

Thank you so much for having me.

I'd love to talk about all these Enneagrams - this is going to be interesting.

Jen Liddy

I think so too.

Before we go much deeper, can you tell people what the enneagram is? Because maybe there are people out there who haven't heard it. I know I never heard of it until the winter of 2020.

Jackie Brewster

Okay.

The Enneagram, it's a personality typing system, so there are nine different numbers and nine different ways of viewing the world. Oftentimes, I think about it like nine different colored glasses. We always think that everybody views the world through our specific colored glasses until you realize, oh, my gosh, there's nine different personality types, nine different ways that they show up, nine different coping strategies, nine different ways people get their needs met.

They try to keep themselves safe through the world, so the enneagram really helps to unpack the why behind our behavior. It's looking at motivation more than behavior - although we'll see a lot of memes and things like that driven towards behavior, the work that I do as a coach is I get underneath that, and we uncover and discover the why behind and what it looks like to grow to a healthier version of yourself.

Jen Liddy

Who do you normally work with when you are teaching and coaching the Enneagram?

Jackie Brewster

I work with all kinds of people.

The age range is 20s to... I don't want to speculate people's ages, but up there somewhere. I do some stuff with teenagers around, helping them uncover the whys behind some of their own patterns of behavior, and I work with males and females.

I work in corporate environments as well as with individuals and couples. So it's vast - I just feel like it's deep and wide with the Enneagram.

Jen Liddy

When I found the Enneagram, it was February 2020, my best friend and I had just stumbled upon it. We went away on vacation with our two families right before COVID hit.

We were really, it was just the two families in this house that we had rented, and we brought this Enneagram book with us, and we started diving in, and the four of us would be sitting around. It was like these light bulbs started to go off - not in a judgy way or a pinhole way, like, oh, now you're a five, so this is you, but in an “I get you so much more” way.

It immediately shifted my marriage because I no longer was misunderstanding what my husband was doing or why he was doing it. It shifted, well, it shifted both of our marriages, and it was absolutely so powerful, and so from then on, we all became obsessed with it. Actually, it's like this vernacular we have where we're like, oh, that's just your oneness coming out. Oh, my God, you're such a nine - this is a nine thing that you're doing.

Can you give us a quick overview of the numbers before we dive into deeply, or is that too much to go into?

Jackie Brewster

No, I can.

Really quick - this is just scratching the surface. If you're interested in what we're really talking about, you’ve got to go deeper. Don't take my one-liners, well, that's just what I am because it's around motivation, remember.

The Enneagram 1 is typically like the perfectionist of the enneagram numbers. They like to do things orderly. They want to be seen as good and right in the eyes of others. They don't want to make mistakes. There's so much below this, but we're just going to stick to the surface here.

The Enneagram 2 is the nurture of the Enneagram. I say this differently, typically, if I had it in front of me, but we're just going. The Enneagram 2, the supportive advisor, they want to be the helpers of a lot of people. They want to be the best friend. They want to be the caretaker. They're great at nurturing. They really lean into the needs of others, oftentimes at the expense of their own needs, so we want to pay attention to that for them.

The Enneagram 3 is a driven achiever. They are all about going after it, whatever that is. They are going to figure it out. They're very competitive people but highly, highly driven.

The Enneagram 4 is the romantic individualist, and they are deep in their feelings. There are some 4s, though, that don't express their feelings as openly, and so they can mistype as something else because it's like they're long-suffering. They don't really show the outward expression of emotion like you expect, but 4’s feel deeply, and they see the world through this creative lens - it is beautiful and interesting. I love to hear a 4 describe their environments.

The Enneagram 5 is the investigative thinker, and so they take in a lot of information. I have a girlfriend, she knows a little bit about a lot. Anything I need, I'm like, hey, what do you think about this? Tell me the whole thing about it. What way should I do it? This is the best way to do it.

She's actually one of the people that started me on the Enneagram journey years and years ago, and so she gave me a book. She was like, here you go, and I was like, oh, yeah, I can see why you gave me this book. So lots of information - the safest way for me to be in the world is to have not a ton of expectations on me, to have good boundaries. Typically, Enneagram 5’s don't have a hard time saying no. They're just like, no, this is my plan, and I'm not going to waver.

The Enneagram 6 is the loyalist. They are gatherers of people. They want to be connected to somebody in authority or an institution or belief system that helps ground them and know that they're making the right decision, the best decision. They want to be attached to something or someone that helps them feel safe and secure in the world.

Jen Liddy

I've never heard that description of a 6 - that's really interesting.

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

We hear a lot of fearfulness around the 6, and I just want to say, no, there's so much more to it than that. We all can get caught up in fear, but if we get below it a little bit, we'll see what we're really looking for. The 6 want to be safe and secure in the world, and so they want to attach themselves to people.

Jen Liddy

Makes so much sense.

Jackie Brewster

Enneagram 7 is the enthusiast - I'm in Enneagram 7, and we are like big-picture visionaries. Let's get it done. We can do all the things, and we can gather people to do it with us. Let's go conquer the world so a lot of energy with Enneagram 7. They want to make great things happen, and they want to do it with people.

The Enneagram 8 is the fierce protector, and so they are often strong. I always feel like you can feel an 8. You can feel an 8 when they enter the room. You can feel their presence. They have a lot of energy. I have a friend that says she's married to an 8. She said he doesn't walk on the floor, he walks on the floor. He just takes up the space, and he doesn't even know it. It's not mean or anything like that, there's an assertiveness about him that is awesome. Actually, I love that powerful piece of an 8 when it's honed in.

Then Enneagram 9  is the peacemaker. and so they sit on the top of the enneagram. I don't know why I always think of them as an owl. Their head can turn all the way around, they can see all sides of a situation. They're great in the midst of conflict, helping people navigate conversations and things like that. They are kind and generous and gentle often, and they really want everybody to get along. They want everybody to have a voice at the table, so it's beautiful.

Jen Liddy

Thank you.

I think that this is such a great jumping-off place for people who maybe have never heard about the Enneagram before. Jackie just did a beautiful job of covering nine different personalities, but in a really positive way because sometimes you follow Enneagram accounts, and it's always like the, not only just the quirks but the negative aspects of it.

As an Enneagram 1 - the perfectionist, the reformer, I think some of the Enneagram people call it, it's so easy for me to see the negative in everything because I'm always trying to fix everything.

I love how you frame all of these with the strengths of each one.

Jackie Brewster

That's how I teach the enneagram.

Even with my clients, we're going to have to look at the negative, but I can't stay there long as a 7th. As a 7th, we stay there long, we're going to have to dip in and dip out, okay? I'm going to help get to the higher side, but I think awareness is key.

Oftentimes if we can get to it in a way that it's approachable, so if I'm just telling you all the negative things about yourself, it's going to be hard.

Jen Liddy

Why would you want to engage with that?

Jackie Brewster

I don't want that.

I do see the world through a positive lens, so that's probably why I teach the Enneagram that way. I do go into the deep stuff, I promise. I go into the deep and the nitty gritty. We look at the not-so-pretty sides, but we look at the why.

Why are you getting to that place anyways?

Jen Liddy

Let's talk about that because the whole purpose of me having these conversations is to find out why knowing yourself better through any of these modalities, like the Enneagram, is useful to you.

Let's talk about why you were drawn to the Enneagram and how it helps people know themselves better, and why that's so important.

Jackie Brewster

I don't know that I was drawn to the Enneagram as much as I was given a book about myself. Then that season of my life, I had four children - the babies were twins, and they were two. That would make the other one seven and nine. I always have to do the math in my head. There's a gap between them.

In that season, everything was chaotic and crazy, and it felt messy and difficult. My girlfriend, she witnessed it all. The good, bad, the ugly, she was there so she gave me this book and I started to read it. I was like, oh, okay, and I originally tested as an Enneagram 8, and I'm like, okay, I can totally see all these strong, assertive. I like the word assertive more than aggressive, so assertive part of myself.

But as I started to read about it and read more of the wings, I really resonated with the 7 more around the childhood messaging of I can't depend on anyone for anything. I'm going to have to figure this thing out. There was a divorce in my family early on, and a single mom.

You just have to figure things out in a different way, and then what my heart longed for was to be taken care of. That's an Enneagram 7 and not taken care of like financially, although that's wonderful, but more on the emotional side of that I wasn't a burden, that somebody actually wanted to love me and to protect me and care for me. When I started to unpack that part of it, that's when I was more curious around, okay, let me see this.

Then there was a phrase with the Enneagram 7 that said frantic escapism, and I was like, that is not the healthiest version of you. I'm just going to tell you, as I talk about the levels of health, it's not the healthiest version of myself. It was the first time I read something that made sense to me, that didn't make me feel like something was wrong with me, but I began to understand the why behind it.

When I want to frantically escape, it could be really good. I typically feel trapped or stuck, I don't feel like I can finish what I start, or there's so much weight of everything on me.

If I look at that, it typically has to do with the lack of margin in my life, and so when I think about this for all the numbers, why would you want to know about yourself and the levels of health? Because it's going to help you understand where you are and why you do what you do. Are you healthy? Are you in the average range? Or are you just not even in a healthy range of yourself? Because the best version of you is going to be working towards health and growth.

Jen Liddy

Yeah.

You can still be yourself but healthy, and I thought that was a really powerful takeaway I had of the Enneagram because, as the perfectionist, everyone's always telling me, you need to play more, you need to relax more, you need to let things go.

It just always felt like I was raging against my own nature, and so when I found the Enneagram, it felt like almost coming home to myself and that I could be myself, but a better version of myself where I didn't have to give anything up about myself.

It was like, there's no fundamental part of yourself that's bad. There's nothing wrong with you being the way you are. It's just how it is serving you. And then how is it serving your relationships? That's what I took away from it.

Jackie Brewster

100%

That frantic escapism, is that a bad part of me? No, it shows up when I'm not healthy, and so what's causing me to get to that place and that's growth. I can recognize that, so I can become aware of that. I can acknowledge that in my own self.

Sometimes it takes me a couple of minutes or a little bit to realize I am not super healthy right now, and then I can decide to choose something different. That's the pivot on growth - we can choose differently if we know what's going on. I feel like it gave words to things that I had felt in that I assumed was bad about myself because it was different than other people's expressions.

Jen Liddy

Right.

The knowing yourself piece of the Enneagram, I think, was really powerful, and when I talk about it with my friends, we all think it's really incredibly powerful. I tend to have as an extroverted 1, I tend to attract introverted 9’s into my closest circle, which is super interesting, but we love to talk about this stuff. And it just helps us accept ourselves. And also, the second part, I think, is you get to accept other people.

Can you talk a little bit about that piece?

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

That is what I feel like when I get to do corporate environments; if I get to go into a corporate environment, I work with a lot of teams. When I get to go into those environments, oftentimes, I'll say I'm going to teach empathy and compassion. That's what I get to open the door to empathy and compassion.

I get to show you guys that there are nine different personality types. There are nine different ways of viewing situations, and there's no right or wrong. Just because somebody has a more assertive stance, it doesn't mean they're better or right. It means that they have to learn how to pull back and pause a little bit.

Some of the other compliance stances need to learn not to say yes so fast, and the withdrawal stance maybe needs to be able to move forward a little bit faster. But all in all, there needs to be space held for every person in it. That's the piece around the aha moments around like, oh, you're not lazy because you're not moving at my pace.

You have a different pace.

Jen Liddy

Right.

It's the, oh, you're not doing it to me. You're just doing it because that's the way your brain is built.

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

Jen Liddy

That was huge for me.

Jackie Brewster

Oh, yes.

I think in our most intimate relationships, because we're human beings created for connection, so we have these intimate relationships. Sometimes it can feel like, why are you doing that? You know, I don't like that, and then there's two sides of it like, they're not even thinking about you when they're doing that.

Two different people and how they get to the same thing might look different - that's a huge one for me. Even in counseling, the counselor was like, he can parent differently than you, and you can still parent together. And I was like, I don't know about that.

Jen Liddy

How can that be? Because I'm right - I'm the right one.

So how can that be?

Jackie Brewster

100% of the time.

Jen Liddy

This was huge for me because, as I said, I'm the one who always wants to be right because my biggest fear is that I'm doing it wrong. I'm married to a 5 who's also an introvert, and he doesn't need to process things through his mouth.

He processes them all in his mind, and he knows a lot about a lot of things, but he doesn't share them with me. So for a long time, I just thought I was doing it wrong, or it was my fault. It was just so freeing, but I think everything you're talking about here goes back to the motivation of why someone is doing, not necessarily the behaviors, but why they're doing the behavior.

Jackie Brewster

When we look at the motivation, there are three things that all of us needed when we were from infancy forward, okay? From little us all the way to present us right now, regardless of your age, we want to know that we're safe, we want to know that we're loved, and we want to make sure that we're getting our needs met and how we learn how to do that.

I think that enneagram is nature and nurture - that's how I teach it. That's what I believe, we are born with a certain temperament. That's the essence of who we are, and our personality comes on the scene when we have to develop patterns of behavior to get our needs met. How do I keep myself safe? How do I get love? And how do I get my needs met?

When we begin to develop those patterns of behavior, this is where the motivations happen. Every one of those Enneagram numbers has a different motivation, and I believe that it's found back in that childhood messaging. There's an unconscious childhood message and a heart longing, and so we're trying to get those needs met.

Within the Enneagram system, there's a withdrawal stance, an assertive stance, and a compliance stance. The only ones that actually go towards people to try to get those needs met are the people in the compliance stance. So your Enneagrams 1s, 2s, and 6s move towards people trying to get this need met.

So the Enneagrams 4s, 5s, and 9s, they're in the withdrawal stance, and they're like, yeah, I think I'm good. I think I'll just try to figure out how to protect this need, and I don't know that I trust moving towards anybody I'm going to get it met. I just, oh, I think I'm going to hold on to that need.

Then you've got the assertive stance, the 3, 7, 8 -  that assertive stance, they stand independently in the world and push against. So they're like, I have a need, I'll meet my own need. I might even push you away because I don't want you to hurt me, and so I would rather try to figure out how to get this need met myself.

Jen Liddy

That makes so much sense.

Jackie Brewster

Oh, right.

Even if you're thinking about the content creation, stuff like this, if you're thinking about how you're doing this and then how you're engaging with your audience, even, it is dependent upon this way that we sit in the world around, what is the safest way for me to do this? How do I get this meeting met?

Jen Liddy

Wow.

So can we play with this for a little while?

Jackie Brewster

Yeah.

Jen Liddy

Okay. So if you are a...so it's compliant, assertive? What is it?

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

It's compliant, assertive, and withdrawn.

Jen Liddy

If you are withdrawn, you are mostly working with the... I don't really trust anybody else. I'm going to figure this out myself.

Jackie Brewster

Yeah.

I mean, in a secure relationship, you're going to move toward your partner, and in a secure work environment, you're going to trust the people around you a little bit more. But you're still going to hold back some. It's like, I'm not sure. I feel like... So if we can use the Enneagram 5so, they want to know that their needs are not a problem. However, I grew up with the message that the world is a scary place. It's unpredictable, and my needs might not get met here. It might be a problem.

I'm going to make my world small - I might have a lot of money in the bank, but that doesn't mean I'm going to spend all my money. I'm probably going to drive a car that's older, and I'm going to conserve my resources because I don't know what's going to happen in the world. They're going to pull back and say; I'm going to try to make sure that I don't have a lot of needs that need to be met. I'm going to conserve what I can. I'm going to... It could be like, I love my people, but I don't want to put that burden on them.

Jen Liddy

How can you imagine that might show up for somebody who has to market themselves as a small business owner? They have to market themselves a need to create content to nurture their audience.

How might that blow up in their face or affect them?

Jackie Brewster

My project manager is a 5, and I have got a book coming out in March, and I have two books already out there. So I'm like, hey, so we need to put the content out, we're going to need to put that out into the world. And he's like, mhm, okay, and then he's like, well, I'm not sure. Maybe we shouldn't do it too much. Maybe we should just do it over here. Maybe I'm not sure.

And then he'll talk to me like, I know it's how he feels about it. I know that this is really uncomfortable for you to market yourself. We're going to have to get really uncomfortable doing this. I'm like, okay, and as a 7, I am assertive in that assertive stance, and I want to put myself out there, but I struggle with that burden piece. 

It's a little bit like, I know I need to do this, but oh so then having somebody that's cautious, that cautions me, slows me down. If I had somebody that was like, this is what we're doing. We're putting you out there, and I would go with it, too.

So my publishing team, they're giving me a plan because I was like, I need a better plan. I need permission to do this, but you see it, so with the withdrawn stance, you'll see a little bit more caution around how can I do this. I don't want to overwhelm the market. I don't want people to think that I think too highly of myself, and this is an interesting one because you've got the 4’s in there that are creative, and there are two different types of 4s.

There's one type of four that creates for others, and they're going to be more likely to want to share their creation. Then you've got another type of four that creates for self, and they're going to sit; that's a ⅘ wing they create for self. They're going to be a little bit more cautious about sharing it all, and so you might feel like you're pulling teeth to try to get them to share where the four with the 3 wing is much more like, how do I get this out there?

Jen Liddy

They've got that driven piece.

Jackie Brewster

Yeah.

Jen Liddy

This is so fascinating to know yourself and your stance. You are the first person who's ever taught me about the stance piece - that's totally new to me. I do not have my head wrapped around that.

I'm learning along with anybody else who's listening, so this stance, along with your specific piece of pie on the nine-spectrum, right? All of this affects how you might show up for your content marketing in terms of feeling like I'm burdening others. I might be like, I'm too big for my britches. It might not be safe to be doing this.

Jackie Brewster

If you look at the other two stances, the compliance stance, the 1, 2, 6 - they're like, what are the rules? Depending on what you're creating, what you're creating for your market space, depending on your space, your specific angle that you've got going on, you're going to look towards others.

What are other people doing? How are other people doing it? Well, what is winning for them? Then that will be like your guide, and so you're like, okay, if they're talking about this seven days a week, then I'm going to talk about this seven days a week. If they are talking about this three days a week and they're doing like, you give two, take one. I think there's a different way to say that.

Jen Liddy

Value, value, ask. Value, value, ask.

Jackie Brewster

You're going to pay attention to what that is in your particular field of interest. That's what you're going to do, so that's more compliant. You're going to move towards it, figure it out. What do people expect me to do?

If you're in the assertive stance, the 3, 7, 8 - you stand independently, and you might not look at what a lot of other people are doing. You're just going to do whatever you think you should do.  There could be a little competition here, so I'm a 7, and I'm more like, I'm just going to create content that is authentic to me.

I want to speak truth to people, I want people to love themselves through awareness, and I'm going to speak truth. I am married to a 3, and my husband is always very competitive. He's always looking for the next big thing or the break or whatever that looks like. So he's like, you need to get on TikTok, and I'm like, I just cannot be my authentic self on TikTok and do this. It's not going to work.

So for the 3 and the 8, because they have a bit more competition than the 7, they might feel more aggressive. They might be more assertive, they might be more in your face. They might be more willing to be bold in their approach, even controversial in their approach. Where some of the other numbers are like, I don't like that one. That makes me uncomfortable, or like, I love that they can do that, but I couldn't do that authentically.

Jen Liddy

The last thing that you just said is the most important thing for us all to remember. As a 1, I am looking at the 3s, the 7s, and the 8s who are doing it their own way, and that doesn't quite work for me. I'm always comparing myself to other people because I'm like, am I doing it right? And so all of this self-knowledge, it's so helpful in that, oh, aren't I interesting?

I think each of us really has to look at ourselves and say how fascinating we are, and there is no one right way. Even though we might have this number that we associate with, it doesn't mean that anything is not possible for us or is possible for us. But it's just such a way to get inside of our own heads and stop beating ourselves up because I wonder what happens when it comes to content creation.

I'm curious about your experience as a creator yourself because Jackie has an incredible Instagram account and an incredible following. I'm wondering, as a creator, I sense that it might be more…you come at it with fun is the vibe that I get from you.

Whereas maybe for a 4 who's trying to present, it might feel more... A 4 with a 5 wing, like you said, might be more painful because they're more withdrawn when it comes to wanting to share themselves, right?

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

It's interesting because I am a 7, and my husband has a marketing background. He's got a social media following. Then I stepped into this thing, and it just blew up - I think it's the content, it's in Enneagram, and people want to know about themselves.

If I keep the focus on people, it's great - if I turn that focus on me, nobody's interested. I will tell you.

Jen Liddy

Boom.

Jackie Brewster

My project manager helps me with this, just with that people want to hear about themselves, Jackie, so then it takes off the pressure. I don't love to post my family a lot on social media because I don't know all those people that follow me, so it feels a little funny. 

If I keep that content going in that direction, it's good. A 7 in health and growth goes to a 5, so I pull in some of that investigative thinking. I am always reading and searching and looking and gathering information, and then I write well in advance, so I'm like months ahead on socials.

I don't take myself too seriously, I try to think about what my audience would like to hear, and then I don't put a lot of pressure on the numbers if that makes sense. I just feel like if I'm authentic to me and I'm teaching it the way that I feel like I should, I don't feel pressure. I work with a lot of other people. I've got friends in different spaces, and they have a really hard time getting social media out there.

The 8s in my life don't want to have a hard time with social media because it's on display, and they don't want people to think that they're dumb or that they're not doing it right. It can almost feel a little 1-ish in some ways, so they have a bit of a hard time getting it out there because they don't want anybody to say anything negative about them.

When people say negative things about me, I'm usually like, oh, thanks so much for letting me know that, or thank you for giving me a different insight.

Jen Liddy

You're not attached to it.

The thing that you said about knowing your audience when you go check out Jackie's Instagram. When you're listening to this, you will notice the level of detail in all of her posts is incredible. I can tell that you research all the time, the way that you're threading things together and thematically threading things together, and the depth that you go to and really mirroring to people what they are seeing about themselves.

That is what makes you such a great content creator because people really do want to know how this affects how anything affects them. What's in it for me? And it's different than being an influencer, and people, I think, conflate content creation with being an influencer.

Jackie Brewster

People will say that stuff to me - I don't look like an influencer, so I don't really think I fit that mold. I get a lot of asks to promote stuff for people, and I just don't. I usually stay pretty clear, but every now and then, I'll say yes to something, but I'm not in that influencer space.

I'm in the business of helping people uncover and discover more about themselves and teaching people how to move towards growth so that they actually like themselves.

Jen Liddy

The other thing that I'm hearing, which I say all the time to my audience, is your message has to be so clear. People need to know what you're about when they find you, and that is so true with you. You are so on brand all the time, like, anybody who lands on your account is going to know what it's about, and I think that's another strength of yours.

If somebody is listening and they're saying Jackie's really focused on educating people and helping them become aware so that they can use these tools to live a better life in their home, in their workplace, and their businesses, that is the way that you're approaching it.

But it's not the only way, it's not the right way, and so I just want everybody listening, if you do want to be an influencer, certainly there's a place for you.

How does your personality and your place on the Enneagram, and your stance help you do all of that?

Jackie Brewster

Yes, and if you want to be an influencer, do it. I have clients that are influencers. Be true to who you are, and don't sell out - that's what I would say.

You probably have to figure out who you are.

Jen Liddy

Which is what the Enneagram helps us do.

We've talked a lot about ourselves as creators, and I would just love to delve into how do you keep in mind, as a creator, all of the different types of personalities that are out there.

Jackie Brewster

I think what I do for a living helps me to be very mindful of the content I'm putting out there because I'm writing it to specific personality types. When I'm writing it, I'm thinking about how they're going to feel when this hits them, and sometimes I write, there was a post I put out this week, and I got it back to me at certain numbers.

I didn't write anything bad, I just wrote what was true, but sometimes they just don't take it that way. You've got to have some thick skin when it comes to content creation, I think for sure. But I am mindful that not everybody sees the light, like life, through my lens.

I am an enthusiastic, fun, loving, like, let's get it all done person. Nobody else but 7s really thinks through that same lens. There's a positive outlook, people, so there's like two 7s and 9s on the Enneagram number. They're going to have a more positive outlook on the world, and they're going to want to go to the positive, but they're the only ones, and then you've got different focuses of attention for each Enneagram type.

It's my job to know that, and it's my job to understand how to deliver that message in a way that is palatable. They can take that in and do something with it. I want there to be a call to action. I always say information is not transformation until you activate it, and so that's super important to me.

How can I give information that can be used for transformation? But it's taken a lot of years of reading and learning and knowing my audience. And so it would depend on what you're selling or what you're highlighting and then focusing on that particular audience.

Jen Liddy

I hope that people aren't listening to this thinking they need to become an Enneagram expert to consider all of these things because you don't.

I think the win is in considering that there is another lens to look through things.

Jackie Brewster

Yes.

Well, and I think, too, if you're going to sell something, if you're a content creator and you're trying to sell something, then what is it that you're trying to sell? Then who would be naturally drawn to that? And then that's the audience you're trying to sell to.

I know my audience; they want to know about themselves, so if I post a bunch of pictures about my family, they're not interested. Unless they're my friends that follow me, and they're like, oh, sweet. I have to pay attention to what they are coming to my site for, and then I have to make sure I'm delivering something that is worth their time.

Jen Liddy

All of this is very intricate, and you and I are both talking about it as content creators who've been doing this for a long time. I'm hoping that everyone listening can be gentle with themselves and maybe just spend some time saying, who am I?

Let's just start there before you think about your audience because that's so big, but who am I? Then who are the people in my immediate circle? And how can I get to know them and their motivations? Before considering, oh, do I have to speak to all of these different audiences?

I did want you to come on because I wanted to open people's eyes so that we can consider other points of view and meet those points of view. We don't have to cure everything, we don't have to solve everything, and not everybody thinks about everything the same way that we do.

It's so helpful when we're creating content because imagine that you take one piece of content and you can spin it in nine ways and just ring nine times out of one piece of content. I just wonder how people can start to think about how they could do this for themselves.

That's why I wanted to have these conversations.

Jackie Brewster

Yeah, I think it's so good.

I just think that authenticity piece is so important. If you know yourself, then you can hold space for other people. I think sometimes we get a little bit caught up in everybody else's expectations and how everybody else is doing it, then we feel a lot of pressure to perform, and we lose ourselves in it. And so if you're beginning this journey, yeah, it is that learning you.

What are you like? How do you like to talk about this? Or how do you like to present yourself? And does this feel authentic? Does this feel like you? Does this feel like you in your skin? And if it doesn't, that's okay, we're just learning. If it doesn't, you might take some time and say, okay, what about this doesn't feel like me? And is there anything in here that I could adjust to make it fit my personal self better?

Sometimes there's not, and when we're doing content creation, and then we're grading for other people, sometimes there isn't that flexibility. But I do think the more comfortable you can be in your own skin, the better you can probably do this.

Jen Liddy

I agree.

Jackie Brewster

Being in my 40’s changes the game on that.

Jen Liddy

Wait till you get to your 50s, it's even better. You're just, like, I don't care.

Jackie Brewster

Yeah.

I think in my 20s, it was like a lot of pressure for everybody else, and what did they think was a win? Then in my 30’s, it was like, I don't know if I'm winning at anything. I know. And then in my 40’s, I'm like, hold on a second. I think I might actually like myself.

What does that look like? I always say this phrase, and maybe this can be helpful for somebody that learned how to be celebrated, not tolerated. When you are in environments where you are celebrated, you shine because they're drawing and pulling beautiful things from you, and they're holding space for you to be you. In environments where we feel tolerated, we're going to feel a little confined and maybe hold ourselves back a little bit.

Jen Liddy

Especially in content creation, and this is where I want to hop on and say if you are on a platform where you feel like you're being tolerated and that energetically is coming through to your audience, it's not a good place for you. You can't sustain that, so I love that you said that.

I'm hoping people's interest is peaked at this point about the Enneagram in general, but I highly recommend Jackie's Instagram. It's absolutely stellar - every time you read one of her pieces, it's like she's holding a mirror up to you. It's absolutely beautiful content creation, and I think so highly of it.

Tell people how they can get in touch with you and how they can work with you.

Jackie Brewster

You can follow me on Instagram @enneagramwithjb, and I'm on Facebook too, but if you're going to talk to me, Instagram is your best option.

I do love my audience, so I love to talk to my audience so if there's anything that you want more information on, even from today's conversation, just you can message me there. I have a website, so it's https://enneagramwithjb.com/ .

You can go there, and there's all the information about the services that I offer and different things like that. I have a book out, and I have an Enneagram Essentials card deck to help you begin to understand more about the Enneagram. Then I have a marriage book coming out in the spring - it's a workbook. It's both people talking, and it's a deep dive into understanding each other better through that lens.

If you like my Instagram, you would probably enjoy that book, but that's how you guys can find me. I do love to talk back, so if I can be of service to anybody, I'm available.

Jen Liddy

Well, thank you.

You are so generous today and giving, and thank you for wherever this conversation led us because neither one of us knew where it was going. It was really, I think it's really fun to learn about ourselves, learn about other people. Then, for me, I'm such a nerd, I always want to talk about content, so I love applying it to content creation, so thank you for playing with me.

Jackie Brewster

Thanks for having me - it was great.

Jen Liddy

Alright.

I will see you next week when we're talking more about content creation, and we're going to keep unpacking these different modalities to help us understand ourselves, understand our audiences, and make our life easier with content creation.

See you next time.