Full Transcript

Jen Liddy

I have heard so many people say, I don't want to do a lead magnet. Do I need a lead magnet? I did a lead magnet. It didn't do anything for me until a lead magnet, our source of frustration. Yet every marketing expert will tell you that you need one. And maybe you don't really understand why you need one or where it fits in your marketing plan today. I'm talking to Claudia, as we do every week. She's my favorite marketing expert. So let's talk about it here. Why do we need a lead magnet?

Where does it fit into our marketing plan? Claudia, thank you for getting on the call again to talk about this.

Claudia Schalkx

Thank you for inviting me again for the people following us. We were laughing before because we were talking about the weather and the Netherlands, and you have to be a plan to like it. 

Jen Liddy

I guess they get three days of summer in the Netherlands. 

Claudia Schalkx

That's it. And we had them already. So we're told the free is an interesting marketing strategy because it's can be so enlightening as frustrating. But I think what helps you to decide what is the best freebie for you is to understand the role of the freebie in your marketing strategy. So you have to think that marketing is the best example of chain reaction. So if one of the elements new marketing is not working, the chain reaction won't happen or won't happen as you want. It so true.

So, like we discussed so many times before, if you're buying persona is not clear to you, it will reflect in your marketing. If your message is not clear, it will reflect in your marketing self. The free week is part of those elements in your in your change. So for entrepreneurs, like goes, you, me and the clients we serve, a chain would look more or less like this. On one end, you have a clear target market with a very specific problem. Right. And on the other end, you have a solution that's hopefully the best solution for them.

So what is in the middle is your strategy. And whatever you put in the strategy you have to think about, and the freebie or your lead magnet is there. And the role of the lead magnet is to bring these two ends together closer. You know, start the conversion. But that's the role of the lead magnet. And let you mentioned yesterday our other video, the things that Go and elite magnet are not the things we would be discussing with clients because clients know us already. We have a different language and we have a higher level of conversation with clients because they have made some progress already.

I have to make sure that you're freebie is for your audience. And, well, that's your ground. So maybe you can elaborate on that because I think that's a clarifying is what to decide on your freebie.

Jen Liddy

Yeah, that is a great point. So I love that we're circling around to this. I love this idea that our clients are not our perfect audience for our content. And I don't think enough people are. In fact, I only have this epiphany a couple of weeks ago, like, oh, our clients are already in our machine. They're already understanding our language. They're already starting to see transformation. But our audience isn't yet. So the way that I like to think about a lead magnet is in terms of the transformation that you wind up creating for your customers or your clients or the problem that you solve before you bring your clients to even step one, people have to believe in themselves, like, there's probably a step zero, and they maybe aren't even at step zero yet your audience members, they might not even know they have a problem.

We talked about that customer journey thing. They might not even be aware that there is a problem, much less that there's a solution available. So the lead, and it has to be speaking to that step zero, and it has to be what they think they need and want. Right? So I want to just admit, I have made many lead magnets that went nowhere. I did lead magnets about time management and goal setting, and they just never went anywhere because that wasn't what people wanted. But when I realized what people wanted was a way to plan their content, like, what they think they need is the plan.

And so I created this lead magnet that I have to admit, I that lead magnet, the customized content player, which is actually how you and I found each other. I was worried about giving it out because it really give so much away of my process. Like, when I've shown it to people, people have been like, I can't believe you don't charge for this. And so I was really worried about giving it away. But again, I realize it's what people think they need, but they often get it.

And then they're like, I understand this. But now I need more help.

Claudia Schalkx

And you're not giving it for free. So that's that's right. 

Jen Liddy

That's another good point. They have to give that email address. That's true. So it's what your lead magnet has to speak to your ideal client or your ideal audience member, your buyers persona what they think the problem is. And I think for us, we maybe give lead magnets that are either above their head or not using the words that they need. And that's why a lot of lead magnets fall flat. I think another thing is a lot of the reasons lead magnets fall flat is people try to do too much in the epic scope of a lead magnet.

I mean, how many lead magnets do you have on your computer that are just either completely worthless or there are two epic, and you can get through them.

Claudia Schalkx

Definitely between those that I have downloaded and those that I have created my digital drawer. It's occupying almost as artist, but it's very interesting when you're talking about elite magnet, because what really renders an elite magnet attractive is the combo of a hot topic. Our audience is dying to know more about wherever you think that's right or not. But what they are dying to know about combined with a format that makes it easy to consume.

Jen Liddy

Yes, I'm just taking notes here. What is your audience dying to know more about? And the thing that you said that I think was so important is what they're dying to know more about. You might know that's not what they need or that's not the solution.

Claudia Schalkx

But that doesn't matter because we're really just trying to speak to their needs to the zero to the .0 that's circling back to .0 you really the question that you have to ask yourself when you come up with an idea for a freebie is asking precisely, is there a step before this? Can I go a step back? And if that's possible, ask yourself again that same question. Can I go a step back? And when you hit the role, that's your .0 yes.

Jen Liddy

And I think some people because people are so smart at this point, our audiences are so savvy, some lead magnets don't resonate with them. I see a lot of, you know, a lot of things about self care. I see our lead magnets at this point, and I think that women at this point, especially when they hear the word self care, they're like, there's two things that fire up for them. I know I should. And I don't have the time. And so if your audience has literally never heard of self care, that might be a great lead magnet for them.

But if your audience has been washed over with the term self care over and over, you need to find a side door in that's why I think a lot of things aren't resonating for people right now. 

Claudia Schalkx

Yes. Well, you know, the example of the self care is very good because we tend to jump into this container word that seems to be defining something. And actually they don't. Or they are so vague that they cross this confusion, you know, because what is self care? If I go to the position that is self care, if I eat well, that is self care. If I breathe, that is self care. You know, if I take time. So this is self care thing, it's a trend that you really need to know what you said.

You know, people has been washed with this thing, and I think they are already dead. So when you go for these words because you think they are a trend, do some keyword research is run a search on the Internet with the title of your freebie or the options of the title of your freebie and see what's going on. You know, bounce, you tumble your freeway idea against what you see on the Internet, and that will give you you will see it what people is not talking about, which is, for instance, the epiphany you had the other day.

What we say to our clients is not the same thing we say to people who could be our clients. We need people as we are here and we bring our clients up. So our potential clients are here. So we need to come down to meet them. 

Jen Liddy

Yes. The other thing is that I think there are life cycles of freebies depending on where you are in your business and where the audiences and how savvy they have become. I have downloaded freebies, like, the luxury words to describe your program, and that was a freebie that really spoke to me at the beginning of my journey because I didn't have the words. I was really needing somebody else's words, but that doesn't resonate with me anymore. And the other thing, I've seen a lot of people, we're both in a quad, and I are both in a very big Facebook group together with a lot of entrepreneurs. 

And sometimes they'll ask questions about lead magnets. And how do I do a lead magnet for people who are making six figures? And above is somebody who's making six figures waiting a lead magnet. Are they going to download a lead magnet? Those people don't want to know how to do stuff for themselves. They want to either hire somebody. So you really have to think about how could your audience use this lead? Is it realistic for your people? 

Claudia Schalkx

Yeah. Then going back to the point that you said that business open your lead magnet might be interesting at some point and then not at some other point. I have a lead magnet on my website. That is a reflection of my philosophy, marketing, which is you need to find your style marketing because to be successful marketing your business, you need to be coherent and you need to be consistent. To be consistent. You need to find a strategy that works for you that is in respect of your communication style and your personality style, you know.

So if you're not an extrovert, getting you strategies that require you a capacity to being an extrovert is very difficult. So you might agree in the beginning and then you will, you know, fight against it and drop it. So I have a lead magnet, that is what is your marketing style. And, you know, if people take it or not, it's practically relevant to me because it's my marketing philosophy. So all my clients go through that. It's an eye opener. So this is a kind of evergreen quiz, because that's how I see marketing like you and I have the same possession about discours, you know, promising six figures overnight where you lay on your hammock, and we have a stand against that.

So if I would have a freebie about that, that would be for me, a timeless and evergreen freebie. So one of the things, if you feel very strong about something, you can translate it into a freebie, whether a quiz or, you know, manifest or something. Put it and see how it works. 

Jen Liddy

Yes. Like the practicing. I think what happens for people, though, is it's an experiment, your lead magnet and you spend a lot of time thinking about it and then you create it or you have a designer created. So you spent time, you spend money and then you put it out there and you've done all of those things. Like you've put it on a landing page and then you've linked the form to it and you get them on your email. And then it might not be the right audience.

And so it's so frustrating to create a lead magnet. So a lot of people just don't want to do it because of how much time and money and effort it takes it is.

Claudia Schalkx

And I think the email sequence is also very tricky to really you really need to know to know how many emails are you going to spend, and if it's really worth, etc. Etc. And you know this thing. If you create a freebie and you spend a lot of time on it and it's not delivering results, run it by your clients, you can repurpose it for your clients.

Jen Liddy

That's a great point.

Claudia Schalkx

Yes. For instance, you have something and you repurposed it for a webinar. 

Jen Liddy

Yes. 

Claudia Schalkx

Because it didn't work as a freebie to attract your client doesn't mean you cannot use it to create more awareness among your clients, give them an extra. You can use it as a bonus. If you are creating a course for you, creating something else instead of giving a discount, you get value. So because it didn't work out well as a freebie doesn't mean you have to put it into the digital chart. You can recycle it somehow. 

Jen Liddy

That's such a great point, because somebody else might need or they might need it in a different format. They might need you to take the three points you are doing in your lead magnet and turn them into short videos, which could become a free bonus training that you do for people or a webinar or something. And maybe you need to just change the title, because, for example, your freebie people might not understand that they need to understand their marketing style. But if the title was like, how to Stop Getting marketing, how to make Marketing Less exhausting for you or how to personalize your marketing.

Maybe it's just like a tweak like that. So it's just this willingness to play with it. But I do want to circle back to the welcome sequence after you have a lead magnet that is working, because that's again. I think this has shifted back when I started online. There was a very precise way to do your welcome sequence and tell them who you are make sure you have a case study in there and there could be up to twelve of those emails and then always selling something.

And I have learned that that doesn't work for me, and it doesn't work for the people who are who come into my world. So I personally have created my welcome sequence. Very clearly. I state I will not be selling anything to you. There are three emails in this welcome. I'm very overt about it. This is a welcome sequence. There are three emails here, and I will not be selling to you in them. And that feels good to me.

Claudia Schalkx

So for instance, in my marketing style quiz, you get the results without subscribing, you know, and if you really want more, if you really want a strategy, if you really want to know more about the other stuff, you can subscribe and then you get like four emails. And at the end you have an offer to sit with me for 20 minutes to discuss the marketing program. You have free.

Jen Liddy

And I know what your calls are like. I know how generous you are. 

Claudia Schalkx

But the people it's worried about these calls and they all sing or sell and whatever. And on the other hand, then people think 20 minutes to solve a marketing problem. I've been strongly for five years. Yes, people, you can do it because we come with franchise. Yes, they can be a source of frustration, but definitely, if you then from your failures, you come out stronger and you come out more versatile and you have more tools and you have more content you can repurpose without much effort. 

Jen Liddy

Yeah. And one last thing I want to bring up about Lead Magnets is we might have gotten the title wrong, but we might've gotten the content wrong, but honestly, it could possibly be that the words on our landing page are not resonating with our people. So before going back to the drawing board, ask yourself, where are the words? Where is there a myth step here. Besides changing all of the things? What's one thing I can change at a time? It just means you have to attend to that thing and not set it and forget it.

But I don't think anything in entrepreneurship is set it and forget it. And I think anybody who tells you it is is a complete bullshitter. 

Claudia Schalkx

Well, there are two things here. One is check the numbers. Look where people is dropping into your freebie process. So if you have traffic towards the landing page and they leave, there is a high bounce rate. There is something in the landing page does not work. Okay, if people click and they sign up, your landing page is working. But if they stop after the first email, that might mean that they only wanted the free resource for whatever I need to have it. Yes, I need to have it or something happens in the first mail to me that there is a gap between when you promise in the landing page and how you deliver it.

So how the freebie loops or how the freebie do. So look, where is the people dropping? If they drop after the third email, then you know that there is something happening. So before you start asking yourself, why isn't my thing working? Look what's happening and give yourself the done to see it happening, you know.

Jen Liddy

Yes.

Claudia Schalkx

To see what's the time. Yes.

Jen Liddy

I guess ultimately, I know that you and I have different lead magnets. You have a quiz. I've definitely thought about using a quiz, but I've got a lead magnet that's working right now to bring people into my world. Again, I think another myth might be that you need three or four lead magnets. This is a way that we overcomplicate things.

Claudia Schalkx

Yes, definitely. You need to spend time the clue of it. All the key. It all is. Then again, you're buying persona, you know. Yeah, again, it always comes down. 

Jen Liddy

Do you have to know your audience?

Claudia Schalkx

Yes. You know, there is interesting storing the great mythology that when the Olympians got into battle against the Titans, Titans lost. And there was a Titan. You know where the Titan is, you know, a huge so there was this Titan called Atlas. And when they lost Seals, the God of the Olympic and English would be the Olympia. I punished him by carrying the weight of the heavens. 

Jen Liddy

Oh, yeah. 

Claudia Schalkx

So you might have seen a sculpture of a huge man on his knee carrying a world he shouldn't be carrying a world. He should be carrying the heavens. And you can compare the main person at two Atlas. It's exactly the same thing. I mean, the way so by persona carries on its shoulders is incredible because it's your freebie. Which platform are you going to use? Which language are you going to use? What topic is your freebie going to be? How are you going to deliver your freebie?

What are you going to put on your website? What is your see sequence going to be? What is your signature solution going to be? What is your message going to be? It really pays off to pay attention to your buying persona because it holds the clue for everything and makes your life leave afterwards. 

Jen Liddy

And when you outline it like that, all of those steps, it can be very daunting if you don't have a lead magnets working and you really have to create that, it can be very daunting to be like, oh, no, I have to go through all those steps. Yes, you have to go through L the steps, but you don't have to do them all in one day. And if you can just bite size, it, it's doable. But knowing the buying persona, knowing what they're looking for, knowing the words that they use.

And frankly, if your lead magnet does not fit into your framework at all, if you're offering something that you actually do, it's not step zero for your people that you, then you're completely wasting your time.

Claudia Schalkx

Yeah, well, my tree is not step zero in my framework. It's later on, but it's step zero for many people who decide or not to become my client. 

Jen Liddy

Right. 

Claudia Schalkx

Right.

Jen Liddy

Right.

Claudia Schalkx

You need to know what works for you. Otherwise, what are you doing there?

Jen Liddy

Yes. Well, as usual, thank you for a good conversation around a realistic topic that I don't think enough people are exploring because. And frankly, if you're not building an email list, do you even need a lead magnet? That's another thing. I have clients who have no interest in building an email list based on where they are right now, so we don't work on a lead magnet for them. If it's not something that I think email is vital, but not everybody does is a lead magnet important for you. 

So these are all questions that only you can consider. But remember that there are people who can help you make these decisions and get you clarity, whether it's clarity in your messaging or clarity in your system. That's what Claudia and I both do, and we would love to help you with that. I put Claudia website here. Bridge to more. Com because you can grab her marketing style. I guess I will put mine here, too. What? 

Claudia Schalkx

I send the resources, you see it in the menu. Go to the resource. 

Jen Liddy

And I put mine here, which is the customized Content planner, which is the first step for getting your content out into the world. 

Claudia Schalkx

And it's definitely a wonderful resource because I am a marketer wonderful at creating content for other people. But it comes to me. It's like a wool it. 

Jen Liddy

But you have started creating content. You have started doing it. 

Claudia Schalkx

And that resource really opened the doors for me. It's so amazing information. I love that. 

Jen Liddy

Thank you, Claudia. I always love our chats. I hope this is he already by everybody.